What's going on with my 5th position? (ballet)?

I've just started grade 5 ballet and on our exercises at the bar we have to do a lot beginning in fifth position. When I bend in fifth position I'm nearly completely turned out and it doesn't hurt at all but when I try fifth position standing upright it feels as though my knees and muscles in my thighs are too big to let me straighten my legs fully, even though I'm skinny. It doesn't hurt or anything, it just feels as though I can't straighten because everything's in the way! If i stand up straight and try to get a fifth position comfortably, without the feeling of my knees being in the way then my turn out goes all poopy 0.o Has anyone got any idea why this is? Is it because I need to work on the strength of my turn out? If so how can I do this effectively? Oh and we're about to start pointe, does anyone know how much a good pair of first pointe shoes should cost. (I'm not at a professional ballet school or anything so they're not going to be in great use or anything. Thanks guys =)

What's going on with my 5th position? (ballet)?paramount theater

You most likely need pointe shoes, when I took ballet I seem to remember girls being about 11years old when they started with these. You have to remember that your body is changing and this is okay - it may be just be the way you are proportioned right now.

What's going on with my 5th position? (ballet)?theatre opera theater

When you get your first pointe shoes you should be fitted professionally. A good dance store should be able to this. This process could take an hour to two hours to complete. It is a matter of trying on several pairs of shoes. The shoes can run any where from $70.00 to $120.00. Once you have been fitted and know your shoe, you can order your next pair on line cheaper. Grishko's Elite point shoe is a good beginner. It runs about $80 in stores by me. On line it is $56. Once you have been on pointe for awhile you may find you need to change your brand or style of point shoe.

On your 5th position. Sounds like you do need to work on your turn out. Think of your hips and legs being turned out instead of looking at your feet. Practice your plies. and demi plies. You should be able to control yourself all the way down and back up. Check out some ballet books at your library for some good exercises for turn outs.
Wow. Great questions.

Maybe you should try turning out less in fifth when doing excersises because not only will you hurt yourself if your too turned out but turning in a little bit will help you become more turned out (I know it sounds wierd).

DON'T PUSH IT! If you force your turnout it can seriously damage your knees leading to your hips leading to you back. Yes lots of problems cna evolve.

I do think that it would be good to work out your turnout if a "perfect fifth" is what you aim for.

Also make sure to talk to you teacher about this!!! It will be SO worth it to spend 2 minutes talking to your teacher about something then spending 2 years in Physical Therepy because you landed your jump wrong from trying to force your turnout.

As for the pointe shoes, it really depends on your foot and the type of shoe that fits your foot. Chacotte is one of the most expensive brands out there. I think probably Bloch and Capiezio are the cheapest. I'm not too big on the pointe shoe business. I was one of the lucky ones where I tried on the shoe it fit, it worked, and I haven't had any problems with it so far.

I wish you all the best! Never stop dancing!
This is such a great question for every ballet student to think about!

Your question implies that you are evaluating your 5th position by looking at your feet. Think about this statement; FEET DON'T TURN OUT. Turn out, as I'm sure you know, refers to the outward rotation of the legs (abduction) where the toes DO point to the side. This has nothing to do with the feet or toes however. It has to do with outward rotation of the hip achieved by proper activation of what are known as the "deep outward rotators" (quadratus femoris, obdurator internus, obdurator externus, piriformis, gemelius superior and gemelius inferior... and yes, I looked them up.) ( "Inside Ballet Technique" by Valerie Grieg, pg 48.) .

Very few people can WORK in a "perfect" 5th. Your "perfect" 5th is the maximum outward rotation of YOUR legs, shins, ankles and feet where you are able to maintain correct alignment as YOU work. This varies with the individual like everything else.

It's better to think of your 5th as something that happens at the top of your legs and not somewhere near the floor. It can be very detrimental for your overall progress to cross your feet into a closed 5th position if your knees, ankles and feet aren't properly ALIGNED. (strain on the knees, collapse in the ankle, weight lifting off of the little toe side of the foot, never strong enough for pointe work, etc...) In your 5th, you want to feel your thighs crossed as high as possible. Make SURE your knees are placed carefully over the center of your foot when you plie in ANY position. Same with the ankles; CENTERED in relation to the foot (not falling inward!) and weight distributed evenly across the metatarsals, especially the outside of the foot (little toe).

Try this; face the barre in parallel 1st position (turned in, ankle bones almost touching). Take a deep demi plie. Check to see that your knees are over the center of your feet. Feel your weight distributed over the whole foot. I should be able to place two fingers under your arch when you plie and not get them crushed! Now, rotate outwards into 1st turned out and feel the same things... knees over feet, weight on outside metatarsal, seat down and all that... Feel different?? Try 5th...

Hmmm... hard to close that 5th up snug like you want it and keep this good alignment huh? OK... now, open some space in your 5th. See if you can keep that good alignment with a slightly opened 5th. (still heel to toe... but your feet describe a small acute angle not two parallel lines) In my opinion, that's where you need to work... with YOUR "perfect" 5th... not someone elses! Work hard with your turn out and things WILL improve...

Merde!
you said your knees? were too big, - maybe your turning out from the wrong place - u're supposed to turn it out from your hips - but you could be right too.
Good question.

There are several possible reasons for your inability to straighten your legs in fifth. The first is that you aren't pulled up. You may have heard this solution before, but pretend there is a wire running off your head and someone is pulling the wire up. Support your shoulders with your collarbones, and focus mainly on pulling your body upwards.

Another problem is that you may be hyper extended. There's nothing wrong with hyper extension, but when you're at the barre you might want to relax a little. If you notice your kneecaps are "up", or your legs are curved inwardly, it's probably because you're hyper extended. The way to rid yourself of the frustration and discomfort of inability to close your fifth properly is to simply bend your knees a fraction. You'll feel your knees bent, but they'll be perfectly straight. Ask your teacher if you're hyper extended, because believe me they will know.

Another problem that may be occurring is that you're rolling in. Never, never, never, ever force your turnout. I swear, you'll regret it when you're older, when you won't be able to use your knees properly anymore. It's perfectly natural for you to be more turned out in a plie, but as you're coming up, don't keep that turnout, because it's not natural. When your roll in, it's forced turnout and your ankles roll toward your big toes. Always fight to keep your weight on your pinkie toes.

Turn out properly. Use your hips and your po-po (sorry... that's what I call it for my students so I'm not saying butt ;-]). Use the very very bottom muscles to turn out. By simply tensing your bottom po-po muscles, your feet and legs will automatically turn out without you doing anything. Turning out from here will also help you turn and when you're on pointe. Be careful, though, because many people interpret this as "clench my butt. gotcha" and develop a useless and overbuilt bottom. Don't let this happen to you!! Be turnout smart. ;]

And as for pointe shoes, I always started out with grishkos, but that's because of my high arch and strong ankles. I would recommend not buying blochs. they are an american brand, and therefore are built so that the shoe molds oddly and breaks in for an untrained foot. I prefer russian brands. I highly suggest getting your pointe shoes fitted professionally (which, to be honest, are usually in small dusty shops where the man who fits you goes into a room full of dusty shelves and countless shoeboxes, and returns within 20 seconds with your shoe), rather than have them done at a commercial shop such as dance ten. don't order them over the internet. That's probably the most unwise thing you can do.

I admire your dedication to your craft and respect you for recognizing your problems and seeking help. I also respect you seeking out help from experienced dancers on your shoes. Kudos!

Hope I helped, honey.??

ps. richlyhp: merde means "s h i t" in french, in case you didn't know. ? pardon my.....french.
Well it depends on the pointe shoe to answer your first Q. I have Inspiration Bloch pointe shoes and they were 55 dollars. It is usually between 50 dollars to 75 dollars. It also costs an additional amount of money to get them fit. Also I would suggest sheepskin toe pads for your first pair. Ask the people fitting you, they will know the best thing. Also, to answer your 1st Q, it means you need to work on your turn out. To find your natural turn out for fifth position, go on your heels (use a bar or railing for support) and turn out as much as you can while your toes are still in the air and lower them in that same spot. To improve turnout you can do an excercise i do alot in bed. just lie down on your back with your legs straight in front of you, and turn out as much as you can. This will help you becuz, you can't cheat while doing this. If you have any other pointe Q's, or anything else that has to do with dance email me at dancingstar7@gmail.com